Re: What should we do with this list?

[Scott Klement <sk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your thoughts. Here are my ideas, let me know what you think:

1)  With regard to the archives, I think what I have now is about the 
best you can do with an e-mail based solution.  You really can't 
consolidate threads because not all people preserve them. Within the 
"hidden details" of every e-mail message is thread information, that 
allows tools to create threads in e-mail, but they get screwed up 
because  (a) people will reply to an unrelated post to start a new 
discussion, and (b) people will use stuff such as "digest mode" that 
eliminates the thread information.   Aside from manually editing the 
archives by hand, there's no way to make threads consolidate properly 
with an e-mail solution.   However, with web-based, threads tend to work 
properly without much effort, and when something goes awry, I can easily 
fix it up using tools built-in to the forums software.

2) I could not produce the quality of software that I do without the 
feedback of the people on the forums.  Using a mailing list on 
Midrange.com would not save me any significant amount of time. Though, 
what it WOULD do is save me other headaches, such as when list members 
report me as a spammer -- which happens regularly -- because they 
apparently don't remember signing up?  Or can't read the message at the 
bottom that tells them how to subscribe?  Or, apparently think that 
reporting me as spam is somehow a viable solution to unsubscribing? 
The problem with reporting me as a spammer (instead of just 
unsubscribing) is that I get put on blacklists so I can't send e-mail to 
anyone, and have to prove myself "innocent" with much evidence before I 
can get removed from the blacklist.  That's not so much time-consuming 
as generally disruptive.  And, in the end, they're still not 
unsubscribed from the list --  after I get removed from the blacklist 
tehy put me on, their subscription continues.   None of this would 
happen with web forums, I think.

3) Focus:  My thinking is that a good forum software will have the 
ability to "subscribe" to topics, so that when a message is posted in, 
for example, the HTTPAPI topic, any interested subscriber would get a 
notification e-mail.  Maybe even including a copy of the post.  The web 
interface would allow you to easily review previous messages in the 
thread (much like the archives do, now) and would be necessary for 
replying.   But, since you could choose the topic you wanted to 
subscribe to (HTTPAPI, for example, but not HSSF if you don't use that, 
or "Other" for the misc stuff) then you could actually have a better 
focus, right?

4) Also related to focus:  One of teh constant problems on Midrange.com, 
who has many mailing lists like this one, divided by topic, is that 
people simply don't follow the topic.  They post wherever they think 
will get to the "right people", or is "easiest".  The result is that 
off-topic posts are common, and there's not a lot that the moderators 
can do about them.  Once it's been e-mailed out to 1000 people, it's too 
late to change teh topic that the message was classified under.   With 
(good) web forums, a moderator can easily move a message to another 
topic if it was posted in the wrong place.   This is another reason why 
I strongly favor web forums over e-mail ones.

5) The other problem with e-mail is you can never tell how the message 
will be formatted on the receiver's e-mail software. Lines get wrapped 
in the wrong place sometimes.  Links don't always work.  Code can have 
the spaces removed, and be wrapped incorrectly, and misformatted.  With 
a good web forum, you can control that sort of thing much better, and 
therefore ensure that all readers will see the message the same.

I don't think any of this will really save me time -- but it will, 
perhaps, save me frustration.


On 9/19/2012 12:47 PM, Mike Krebs wrote:
> If this list moved to a forum style, would there be the capability of reading it offline? I hardly ever visit forum sites but when I have a few minutes to spare I will hop on my email and read the posts.
>
> I have thought that a forum style would be great for the archives. I particularly like the thread consolidation of forums.
>
> Scott, you have lots of different software you have contributed and I love that you are active and supportive of the software you written. If you weren't dabbling in being a mailing list/forum provider, would it give you more time to write software? Maybe you should just say "support is on midrange.com" or some other site.
>
> That brings up the best thing about this list...focus. I don't have 1000 messages a week to wade through to learn about HTTPAPI. It is very focused on what I am interested in right now.
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