RE: HTTPAPI vs ISockets

[Jon S <rvrratjon@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Sorry that my replies look so horrible. I am trying to figure out why hotmail is doing that. Microsoft software....


> From: rvrratjon@xxxxxxxxxxx
> To: ftpapi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: RE: HTTPAPI vs ISockets
> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 07:47:13 -0600
> 
> 
> I am finishing up my third project that I have used HTTPAPI for and it has worked like a champ. It seems as though Cozzi has just gotten weird these days. Thanks for HTTPAPI Scott.> From: ian@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> To: ftpapi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Subject: RE: HTTPAPI vs ISockets> Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:57:39 +0000>> I have worked with Scott since late 2003 on the HTTPAPI project and> during that time Scott has responded to my many queries and problems> with speedy comments and resolutions. There is absolutly no doubt that> the support I have received over the years from Scott has been first> class, and a damned sight better than most 'commercial' products.>> Regards>> Ian Patterson>> Grange IT Limited>> -----Original Message-----> From: ftpapi-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> [mailto:ftpapi-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of Scott> Klement> Sent: 20 November 2008 10:59> To: HTTPAPI and FTPAPI Projects> Subject: Re: HTTPAPI vs ISockets>>> Hi Simon,>> Thank you for your kind words. I'd like to give my feelings on what> Cozzi said, if that's okay...>> I wrote HTTPAPI largely for myself and one other developer to use. I> didn't really design/write it with the goal of it being a publicly> available software product. I later thought to myself "hey, it's useful> ... maybe others would like a copy" so I put an open source license on>> it and put it on my web site.>> My attitude was "if this is useful, feel free to take it." I kinda> thought that was a nice thing to do.>> Apparently not. Apparently if I want to give away source code, I'm being>> downright rude, unless I offer to provide full support to the world on> my own time, for free.>> Incidentally, for the most part, I actually *do* provide full support> for free. I just don't make any promises that I will always be there to>> do that.>> The library issue that Cozzi complains about is an example. As soon as> someone told me that it'd be better to remove the hard-coded libraries,> I did. Note that Cozzi never even mentioned the library issue to me. He>>
 never gave me the option to fix it for him -- he, apparently, just> decided that I'd take the 'you've got the source, fix it yourself'> stance -- but since he didn't ask me (he didn't even tell me he> downloaded HTTPAPI until much later) I'm not sure how I could've taken> that attitude with him.>> Indeed, I was speaking on HTTPAPI at RPG World. At the time, Cozzi ran> that conference in a partnership with Jon Paris and Susan Gantner.> (Today that's no longer true, it's purely Cozzi's conference. The group> decided they didn't want to work together anymore.) I developed this> session and gave it at this conference. By the time the next RPG World> came around, Cozzi told me that my session wouldn't be needed anymore,> since he had his own.>> The library problem was true. Sort of. I originally had LIBHTTP> hard-coded into the system. If you wanted to use a different library,> you'd have to do a PDM option 25 and search out the 'LIBHTTP' string and>> replace it with whatever you wanted to use. (Or do the same thing with> the FNDSTRPDM command.)>> I'm not sure how Cozzi came to the conclusion that searching for a> string and replacing it was more work than writing his own tool from the>> ground up. And I'm not sure why, if he felt so strongly about it, he> couldn't do the FNDSTRPDM, replace it with a variable instead of a> hard-coded reference, and contribute that back to the project. Surely> that would've been easier than writing his own tool from the ground up?>> But, he didn't even mention it to me. Didn't even provide me with> feedback telling me what he disliked about the project. Made no effort> at all to improve it.>> Nowadays, of course, you can specify any library that you like, or> *LIBL, when you install HTTPAPI. The install program for HTTPAPI asks> you what you want to do, and gives you as much freedom as it can. That> happened because someone else (not Cozzi) mentioned to me that it'd be> nice to have. It took me about an an hour to change it and release it> to the public.>> I can only conjecture that 
there was another reason why he wanted to do> this. If he contributed to HTTPAPI, and improved it, it'd still be my> tool, right? It'd still have my name on it, and I'd still be credited> for it. My impression of Bob is that having credit for the work would> be very important to him.>> You'll note that iSockets isn't free, either. Not free as in freedom,> at any rate. He'll give you the compiled objects for free, but if you> want the source, it costs money, and it remains his property. HTTPAPI is>> free as in freedom, as well as free of charge.>> The other thing that's always bugged me about iSockets is the confused> terminology. iSockets is a tool to simplify creating TCP connections.> It doesn't support all of the things that sockets can do, only what TCP> can do. It's touted all over as an HTTP tool, but it doesn't do HTTP -->> you have to do that yourself. In his discussion of "what iSockets can> do" on the iSockets web site, it points you to a web page dedicated to> the HTTP protocol, even though his tool doesn't implement HTTP, it> leaves it up to you to implement it (which is perhaps why you need to go>> to that site) But, he never even mentions that you could use iSockets> to write other apps like e-mail, telnet, FTP, or the hundreds of other> tools that run over TCP. I've always wondered if he thinks sockets are> purely for HTTP, and doesn't realize that they're used for all internet> applications? He has a similar confusion about a URL vs. a host name.> His routine called OpenURL doesn't actually open an URL! It establishes>> a TCP connection to a host name. To implement the other parts of the> URL (the protocol, directory name and file name, for starters) you have> to write your own code.>> He also refers to it as a "free web services library". It's not a web> services library. It doesn't understand SOAP or WSDL or anything like> that. It doesn't even understand HTTP -- you have to code the HTTP> yourself. Could you use iSockets to write a web services client? Sure.>> But it'd be YOU writing the web s
ervices tool, and using iSockets as a>> piece of it. It isn't, by itself, a web services tool.>> But, anyway... what am I quibbling for? If he uses his name (he's a> bigger name than I am) and the fact that his software is sort-of free,> and other stories to compete with me, and take away all of my> "customers", what does it hurt me? I don't make money on this.>>>> Jones, Simon wrote:>>> "Heck, look at iSockets (www.isockets.net) it is a SOCKETS wrapper>> *SRVPGM that I wrote a couple years ago. Why did I write it? Because>> the one that "everybody" suggested I use, written by a noted Magazine>> Author, was so ridge that I couldn't install it into anything other>> than the library the author initially used. Which meant I had to add>> yet another library to my library list to, compile it, to run it and>> to allow the end-users to use it. The attitude of "you've got the>> source, and it was free so change it yourself" is sort of strange and>> only dampens the desire for others to use it. And this one was>> written by a relatively good developer.">>>> At least he thinks Scott is a 'relatively' good developer, although>> quite what you need to do to be an 'actually' good developer is> beyond>> me at the moment!>>>> -----------------------------------------------------------------------> This is the FTPAPI mailing list. To unsubscribe, please go to:> http://www.scottklement.com/mailman/listinfo/ftpapi> ----------------------------------------------------------------------->> -----------------------------------------------------------------------> This is the FTPAPI mailing list. To unsubscribe, please go to:> http://www.scottklement.com/mailman/listinfo/ftpapi> -----------------------------------------------------------------------
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